Breakdown to Breakthrough – Stories and Strategies for Moving Through Divorce Quickly

OVERVIEW

In this episode, Rob Roseman interviews Justin Milrad, a certified divorce coach and author, discussing the complexities of divorce and the journey from chaos to personal growth. Justin shares insights on when healing begins, the importance of co-parenting, and how to rebuild life after divorce. He emphasizes the need for community support and the differences in how men and women handle divorce. Justin also highlights the role of a divorce coach in navigating this challenging process and offers resources for those going through similar experiences.

HIGHLIGHTS

• Healing begins when you surrender to the reality of divorce.
• Accepting the new normal is crucial for moving forward.
• Divorce can be an opportunity for personal growth and rebuilding life.
• Co-parenting is essential for the well-being of children post-divorce.
• Community support plays a vital role during and after divorce.
• Men and women process divorce differently, impacting their healing journey.
• It’s important to put yourself first to improve your overall well-being.
• Understanding each other’s perspectives can lead to better co-parenting.
• Micro movements can lead to significant changes over time.
• A divorce coach can provide valuable support and guidance through the process.

TRANSCRIPT

Rob: All right, welcome to the divorce lawyer.com podcast. Today we are lucky to be joined by Justin Milrad. Justin is a certified divorce coach and author that we’re going to talk about his new book and the founder of Reclaim and Reboot, helping people rebuild life after divorce with real life experience, financial expertise and relationship coaching. Today we’re going to be talking to Justin about going from breakdown to break through and how to turn the chaos into divorce, into real personal growth.

Justin, good to meet you. Thanks for being on today.

Justin: Great to be here. Thanks for having me.

Rob: I like that line turning chaos because that is what divorce is when you’re in it. that what you see with a lot of your clients?

Justin: Divorce, when you’re in it, is really chaos and I definitely see that with my clients and we break through that chaos very quickly.

Rob: So we’re kind of gonna go in all kinds of order here, but let’s hop right into the questions.

Justin, when does the healing really begin after a divorce?

Justin: You know, so the healing really begins after the divorce when you’re surrendering. And it actually, can happen during the divorce process as well. But it takes some time to really accept the fact that you’re going through this. And once you stop resisting and trying to question the why, the how, what was done to me or what did I do to contribute to this? Once you accept it, you’re ready to move on at that point, then that’s when the healing starts.

You know, and I’ll speak of my own experience. You know, we were going through a process, you know, contemplating divorce and going through the divorce over three years. And the first couple of years, I was the victim. And I, you know, it became my new identity, a divorced dad going through divorce. It’s all I thought about. And my mind would spiral over and over again. And it wasn’t until I actually met a divorce coach who really helped me think through this and really see, you know, there’s some great opportunities for growth here and that whether I like it or not, I need to accept the new reality that yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery and all I have is the now. So, you know, there’s a big shift in identity.

So once you can realize that there will be a new version of me, there will be a new normal and what so many people try and do is they try and return to their normal.

Well, their normal obviously wasn’t working, but here’s a real great opportunity to figure out what does your new normal look like. And you’re getting off the hamster wheel of life and you’re standing there and you’re taking a look at your life, your surroundings, your relationships, your love life, your self, and you really have a great opportunity to make adjustments so that your post-divorce life can really be incredible.

Rob: So much good stuff in there that I haven’t gone through my own divorce I can relate to. It’s like that that term resistance I always I almost like at a certain point, especially with young kids. It’s like, resistance is futile. Like it just does not work.

But I wonder, like with hindsight, we can see that but do think you can you can skip that part? Can you skip that thrashing painful chaos when you’re going through divorce?

Justin: You can certainly skip it and lots of people do, but then they’re stuck in a negative spiral. And one of the reasons that I became a divorce coach, which never in my life did I ever expect this would be kind of my pathway, you know, I made some new friends and I started building this new community and I had some new divorced friends who five, 10 years out, they were still stuck. In fact, I know one person who 25 years out is still kind of stuck in the divorce and that being a big part of her identity.

So yes, you can move through it. It’s just a process. But really you want to grow from it. And if you don’t do the work and you don’t do the introspection, you’re cheating yourself. You’re cheating your kids. You’re cheating your family and you’re cheating the world of what you can become the better version of you or what I like to refer to as the you 2.0.

Rob: Yeah, and I think we all go through it’s I almost call it like a divorce honeymoon. Whereas right after you’re like, you got the adrenaline, it’s over, you’re like, I’m through it, I’m gonna go date or party or take time to myself. And then a lot of it’s not a linear thing. A lot of times you go up and then you crash down and then you sit in it. So it seems like it’s not a linear process divorce.

Justin: It really isn’t. And you know, we spend a lot of time blaming ourselves and you know, we certainly have contributed to the failure of a marriage. But it’s also really important to learn about, you know, why do I act the way I act? You know, what sort of, you know, childhood trauma or life trauma do I have and how can I work through that? And then also conversely with with your ex and I’m not saying this in a bad way.

But really trying to understand who are they and why do they act and did they act a certain way? And then maybe did I not understand it? Did I not respond to them? And ultimately, I think this is the solution to a lot of problems in our life. It’s early communication. It’s getting to understand one another. And in future relationships, I really took this into perspective. You know, I’m, happy to announce I actually got engaged last night to a wonderful woman who I’ve been dating for two years.

We both did the work and we’ve had the conversation and I feel really good about our relationships because I understand everything about her, you know, that she’s shown me and she understands everything about me that I was willing to show her and I think because, you know, we were so vulnerable with one another and we’re so empathetic and understanding, I think our relationship is gonna really thrive because of that.

And I think that’s often one of the things that leads to marriage is just not full transparency or willingness or want to learn about people’s past and what fully makes them tick, not just on the positive side, but on the negative side.

Rob: That and the fact we’re probably 25 and not, our brains aren’t fully evolved and we just want to have kids. There’s all kinds of like a recipe that leads to, and when I look back, I’m like, well, no shit. These people are getting divorced because like they’re going into this business with like blinders on. So, you know, and our kids come from it. So there’s so many great things that come from our marriage and look, you’re new, you your engagement. Do even think that would have been possible without having gone through what you went through?

Justin: Absolutely not. You know, this wonderful relationship that I’m in would never have been possible without going through the divorce because frankly, I didn’t do the work. I didn’t do the introspection. I didn’t really understand what made me tick and what made others tick and it opened up my eyes and you know, I’m grateful for that. And I also didn’t really, I didn’t realize what happiness and joy was. Now, I had a great relationship with my ex until we didn’t in terms of our marriage.

But we were young and we were dumb and like you said, you know, our brains aren’t fully formed and lived experience goes a long way. And, you know, we just have to take that information and really process it and use it in our future decisions or future actions and such and be very deliberate. And listen, marriage is hard. Parenting is hard. It takes time. It takes investment and you can’t just let it be. If you let it be, it’s going to fail.

And I think that’s probably something that we did in our marriage. just, were on the roller coaster of life, you know, had three kids and, you know, lived through COVID and social injustice and on, you know, being business partners. And, you know, we never really took the time to work on ourselves as a couple. So, you know, it takes work.

Rob: Yeah, well, it’s and it’s, it’s a very ambitious undertaking, you know, raising three kids going through, you know, it’s just like, I think, having that clarity, and it is was kind of one of the questions I was going to ask you is a divorce can be this opportunity, it can be painful, but it can be this opportunity to rebuild your life. Is that what you’re you’re seeing here?

Justin: Yeah, so, you know, divorce can definitely be an opportunity to rebuild your life. But I think you have to do divorce right. And what that means is, you know, while you’re going through the divorce, you know, it’s not necessarily about 50-50. It’s about making each other whole. It’s about having a good, strong co-parenting plan if you have kids so that your kids thrive, because it’s not divorce that destroys kids.

It’s a bad divorce and bad co-parenting that destroys kids.

And I will say, while we didn’t have a very nice or amicable divorce, I give my ex-wife and I a lot of credit for saying, hey, our kids really matter. We need to be the best possible co-parents that we can be. And I give us an A plus on that. We’re excelling in that because we realize how important our kids are. And a lot of my clients, when they come to me, they have co-parenting issues and problems and we work on that so that it can be harmonious. You’re not meant to be best friends, but you and your ex, if you have kids, you’re gonna be in business with the kids for the rest of your lives. So you want it to be a positive experience, not just for the two of you, but obviously for your kids, because if they see you getting along well, then they’re gonna thrive in life. If they see there’s a lot of problems and they’re being dragged into it, they’re gonna suffer and that’s not something that we as parents should ever do to our kids.

Rob: Yeah, it’s so interesting always here like divorce can have this really negative impact on kids. And we all skip the part that like maybe the healthy marriage, the unhealthy marriage also might have a negative impact on kids. And then it’s like, the reason we get divorced is to have a healthier model for our kids. So while it takes time, like the goal of divorce is to model a healthier relationship, so our kids can benefit not just keep repeating this pattern in just a different container.

Justin: Yeah, absolutely. And to go back to your original question, you know, it takes a lot of introspection. And I don’t want to glamorize divorce because it’s not a great place to be. But sometimes we’re in it.

But let’s not let a divorce go to waste. It’s a perfect time to really dig deep and find out what makes us tick, what gets us excited.

And this is all aspects of our life. You know, what are we grateful for? Our career? Do we want to make a career change or financial, our identity, who are we, who do we want to be? What sort of legacy do we want to leave behind? Connection with a greater power, know, am I spiritual, am I connected to God, I connected to something else, but it’s a great way to, you know, connect to something else. Your support network, your community, your hobbies, you know, it’s really interesting. There were a couple things that, you know, I kind of challenged myself during the divorce that I would have never done when I was married. Number one is I took ballroom dancing lessons. you know, I remember when my ex-wife and I started practicing for our wedding dance, you know, the teacher and she both said, you got two left feet, you know, this isn’t going to work out. So we changed the structure of the dance. So I always thought that I wasn’t going to be able to be a dancer. So I challenged myself.

And I took lessons and I competed in A, dancing with the stars, you know, competition, you know, for charity. And the other one was, you know, I’ve always been interested in fitness, but I did it very recreational and I wanted to do something a little more. So I started training as a triathlete and I’ve done a handful of triathlons and I have a few more in the future, but I never thought that was possible. And not only was it great because I was taking care of my body.

But the connection between the mind, body, spirit and soul was so powerful. And guess what? I had a new community of friends. And that’s really important. And when you’re going through a divorce, you need a community. You need multiple communities. You need a support network and that helps you get through it. you know, looking back at who I am today versus maybe who I was five years ago, I’m much happier as a person. I feel a lot more fulfilled. And even though I’m not happy I was in this position, I think deep down it was probably a blessing and the second part of my life I feel is on the up and up.

Rob: Absolutely. And that’s a great point. I hadn’t even thought about it. It’s the isolation I find, especially for guys is like a real, you know, pitfall that comes with divorce. And you’re kind of are, you’re getting into fitness, you’re getting into these other activities, you’re like stacking that with community and friendships. So it’s like, you’re getting this multiple benefits from these new activities that you would have never tried. Maybe you had the same friends for 20 years when you were married, and then you get divorced and now who are you going to be friends with? It’s hard to make friends. So you start dating and then you get into activities that have groups. So I like how you’re you’re leveraging these life changes to benefit your life in multiple ways.

Justin: Yeah. You know, listen, divorce can be really lonely. especially if you’re going through it by yourself, but there are some amazing, you know, support networks out there. There’s some wonderful Facebook groups, there’s hiking groups, there’s, you know, you can even, and you should get involved in things that have nothing to do with divorce that just give you joy, whether it’s a triathlon or, you know, a fishing club or boating or whatever. There’s so many wonderful things to do. And, know, my ex and I, have 50-50 custody. And what that means is 50 % of my time I’m with my kids. When I’m with my kids, I am with my kids and we go deep and we spend a lot of loving time and wonderful time together. But the other 50 % is a gift. And I get to do what I want when I want and I don’t have to answer to anyone else but myself. So you get the opportunity to do things that you ordinarily might not have had time.

Rob: Do you hear from your married friends? there like a tinge of envy and curiousness about like what’s going on with your life? that something you’ve seen?

Justin: Yeah, sometimes, you know, one of my, one of my friends, his wife, sent me a text message and she says, stop telling my husband about all the fun and things you’re doing. You know, I’m worried he’s going to want to get a divorce and, I apologize, but, it’s, it’s one of those things. Listen, you can get that in marriage and you can get that in divorce too, but, it’s really about just being intentional with your life and your decisions.

And one of the hardest things I heard from a therapist, but it actually proved to be true, is put yourself first. So I would always put, you know, my kids and my ex first. And I rarely ever put myself first. And what I learned was if you put yourself first, you’re going to show up better for your kids and you’re going to show up better for whomever you’re in a relationship with and you’re going to show up better for the world. So when you’re happy and in a good space, it affects your ecosystem in a very positive way.

And conversely, if you’re in a negative space, you have the same sort of negative ramifications.

Rob: So you’ve worked, I’m curious, you’ve worked with male clients, female clients. I only know coming from a guy’s point of view, although on our Instagram, we have millions of women that are constantly talking about their perspective. Do you think men and women handle all of this the same way?

Justin: Absolutely not. Men and women do not handle divorce the same way. I think it’s very true what they say, men are from Mars, women are from Venus.

I think men really internalize their feelings and they don’t necessarily seek help or support. I also think that for men, identity is such a big part of who they are. So their identity as a father, as a spouse, as a provider, you know, really get shattered. And then there’s, you know, the financial piece as well. You know, rarely do either party end out, you know, end off much better after divorce financially. Divorce is very expensive. And, you know, instead of combined assets, now you have separate assets. So it’s very difficult. And then I think for the women, you know, their identity is also very different. They will seek support a lot more than men, but they handle it different, you know.

I find with my own clients, the female clients are more emotional about the divorce. They’re very concerned about, you know, can I afford to go on? How do I juggle everything? Some were homemakers and full-time moms and now they have to go get a job. you know, multiple dimensions in their lives. So they’re different problems. And that’s why I go back to the, you know, if you can make your, your spouse, whole. And maybe it’s a little bit of an imbalance. Number one, it’s good for the kids. But number two, you don’t have to, you know, stay fighting, you know, over money and time with the kids and all that over time. I think the best outcome of a divorce is that you wish your spouse, you know, good wishes for the future that they find joy and happiness and fulfillment, and they live the life that they want and you deserve the same and that way, you know, it’s not an ongoing divorce.

You know, I have some friends who, know, 10 years out, they’re still fighting over stuff that could have been resolved. So I think it’s really important in post divorce life to come up with an agreement and there’s something I do with my clients a lot of what does good co-parenting look like, you know, how do we address questions, you know, if I have some concerns, how do I raise it, you know, in a safe way? What does communication look like? Because ultimately, you know, we should have respect for our exes. We love them at one point. We have to always remember that things weren’t always bad. And there’s lots of reasons why there are divorce. But there’s a lot of bad will that’s out there that we just need to get rid of because it just it holds us back from forward progress and momentum.

And you know, for some people, can’t make big moves. So I always suggest make micro movements, you know, do one small thing every day. And then you’ll find out over time that you’re making big change. So men and women, I’ve just always found, handle divorce very differently. You know, my client base is probably split 50 50, but their needs are very different. And, know, one other point on that is I think it’s really important for a male to put themselves and understand the mindset and the concerns of a woman and for a woman to put herself in the mindset of a male and what’s important to him. And that way, if you can understand each other while you’re going through a divorce, hopefully you can resolve all your issues in mediation and not have to go to court. And then when the divorce is completed and just moving forward with each other, you have a good understanding of the other person and it shows respect to one another. And then it’s a productive relationship, which really benefits everybody.

Rob: Yeah, that’s, it’s, it’s so true. see so much of it from hindsight. So that’s the really the benefit. And I didn’t even know what a divorce coach was when I was going through mine. I now see like the benefit of working with somebody that’s been through it. That’s not just your lawyer. I know you’ve got a new book out and let people know how they can connect with you, Justin.

Justin: Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, I just want to say having a support team is really important. And that includes, you know, a therapist, a divorce coach, an attorney, you know, a CPA. and the list, the list goes on depending on your needs. you know, a divorce coach is very different than a therapist. A divorce coach is your thought partner through the process. You use them for the highest and best use. can use them before filing for divorce during divorce and post divorce depending on what your needs are. Whereas a therapist really helps you understand your emotions, dig deeper into trauma, you know, but they don’t necessarily have the specific experience in divorce. They work great hand in hand.

So I wrote this book, launched it in June. It’s called You 2.0 Divorce a Better Way Forward. And so far it’s been going really well. And really this was a labor of love. I want people to go through divorce as amicably and as quickly as possible. Typical divorce takes about five years to work through the emotions. I think if you read the book and you get a coach and stuff, you’ll move through it in one or two years. And the sooner you move through it, productivity, emotion, emotional wellness, mental health, all that improve.

And then I had some requests from my book. They said, this is really helpful, but I’d love to have a workbook. So we created this workbook. We’re launching it next week, I think on the 21st of August. And this basically takes the concepts from you 2.0, you know, and gives you exercises that are deeper, greater depth that, that you can go through yourself.

You can always reach me on my mobile phone, 404-353-5175. I give a 30 minute free consultation to talk about your situation. You can also reach us at www.reclaimandreboot.me. We also have a Facebook page and a Instagram and a LinkedIn page. So I look forward to connecting with others and thank you so much for your time today.

Rob: Awesome. I appreciate it. really appreciate hearing the perspective from a guy that’s gone through it. I think that’s a unique perspective that we need to hear more of. So Justin, thank you so much for being on the DivorceLawyer.com Podcast.

Justin: Thank you, great to be here today.

The DivorceLawyer.com Podcast with Rob Roseman, Featuring Justin Milrad – Certified Divorce Coach and Author

Contact Information – Find Justin Milrad online here, Divorcesupporthelp.com or at his website, www.reclaimandreboot.me.